Having consulted with a few persons and also thanks to the comments made by 'The Dark Numismatist', it does certainly appear that the 2008 Ornamental Arms 3rd Portrait Decus coin is indeed genuine, but due to its low mintage numbers, is extremely rare.
The 1988 Crown Over Shield coin is stated as being rare with a circulation number of around 7.1 million, but the 2008 OA3D has only 3.9m made making it effectively twice as rare.
Others agree that its a coin to keep hold of.
Does anyone think we will see this coin 'faked' yet?
Saturday, 8 August 2009
Thursday, 6 August 2009
The Great 2008 Pound Coin Mystery....
Ok, heres the scenario.
I have in my collection of 'true' pound coins, (that actually got me interested in this 'fake' coin mullarkey in the first instance), at least one 2008 pound coin with the Ornamental Arms, 3rd portrait and the 'Decus' inscription. Detailing is superb, lustre is what you'd expect for a new very limited circulated pound coin. There is absolutely no reason to believe these coins are fakes.
Now the mystery...!!
If you've read my other blog about the Royal Mails downloadable posters and have actually printed them off for yourselves, why on the 'Britains £1 Coin Designs' is the 2008 Ornamental Arms, 3rd Portrait, Decus not shown??
Surely a minor printing error by Royal Mail......
Hang on though, the other downloadable poster entitled 'A Guide For Identifying Genuine Coins' shows all the 'true' designs, perhaps the 2008 O/A 3 Decus is on here.
NO!!!!
But this is the Royal Mints definitive guide to what every single true £1 coin design is like.
Ah, perhaps its a very very very good fake, using the fact that everyone knew the design was changing to a completely new design for 2008/2009.
But again no, on the Royal Mint website they actually list that 3.91 million 2008 OA3D coins were produced, but it doesn't say whether they were to be circulated or uncirculated.
Does this lead us to believe it could actually be a mint error as almost significant as the 'undated 20p saga'??
Whatever the outcome, I'd suggest you hold onto these particular coins if you're lucky to come across them, because fake or not, they are going to be worth more than their £1 face value.
I have in my collection of 'true' pound coins, (that actually got me interested in this 'fake' coin mullarkey in the first instance), at least one 2008 pound coin with the Ornamental Arms, 3rd portrait and the 'Decus' inscription. Detailing is superb, lustre is what you'd expect for a new very limited circulated pound coin. There is absolutely no reason to believe these coins are fakes.
Now the mystery...!!
If you've read my other blog about the Royal Mails downloadable posters and have actually printed them off for yourselves, why on the 'Britains £1 Coin Designs' is the 2008 Ornamental Arms, 3rd Portrait, Decus not shown??
Surely a minor printing error by Royal Mail......
Hang on though, the other downloadable poster entitled 'A Guide For Identifying Genuine Coins' shows all the 'true' designs, perhaps the 2008 O/A 3 Decus is on here.
NO!!!!
But this is the Royal Mints definitive guide to what every single true £1 coin design is like.
Ah, perhaps its a very very very good fake, using the fact that everyone knew the design was changing to a completely new design for 2008/2009.
But again no, on the Royal Mint website they actually list that 3.91 million 2008 OA3D coins were produced, but it doesn't say whether they were to be circulated or uncirculated.
Does this lead us to believe it could actually be a mint error as almost significant as the 'undated 20p saga'??
Whatever the outcome, I'd suggest you hold onto these particular coins if you're lucky to come across them, because fake or not, they are going to be worth more than their £1 face value.
Royal Mints downloadable poster
The Royal Mint website has a great downloadable chart showing all the true reverse designs with their correct portraits, year dates and Latin inscriptions. It prints onto an A4 page and is an excellent guide to what the 'true' pound for each year is.
There is actually 2 different versions of the poster. One is titled 'Britains £1 coin designs' and the other is named ' A Guide For Identifying Genuine Coins'. There is also a third A4 that is called 'Dont Get Trapped With Counterfeit One Pound Coins' which lists the year dates for the various Latin inscriptions etc.
Well worth a look and the time to download and print out.
There is actually 2 different versions of the poster. One is titled 'Britains £1 coin designs' and the other is named ' A Guide For Identifying Genuine Coins'. There is also a third A4 that is called 'Dont Get Trapped With Counterfeit One Pound Coins' which lists the year dates for the various Latin inscriptions etc.
Well worth a look and the time to download and print out.
Fake or uncirculated rarity?
There are 2 pound coins that have never been produced for general circulation, but were made for collectors and presentation sets etc. However on the odd occassion they do 'slip' into the mainstream circulation and are worth looking out for.
1998 Ornamental Arms, 3rd portrait and 'Decus Et Tutamen'
1999 Rampant Lion, 3rd portrait and 'Nemo Me Impune Lacessit'
If you have either of these then you are very lucky, or its a fake!!
1998 Ornamental Arms, 3rd portrait and 'Decus Et Tutamen'
1999 Rampant Lion, 3rd portrait and 'Nemo Me Impune Lacessit'
If you have either of these then you are very lucky, or its a fake!!
Monday, 3 August 2009
The Queen has three heads!!
Currently there are 3 seperate designs of the Queens bust for the pound coins as follows;
1983 & 1984 - 1st portrait
1985 until 1997 - 2nd portrait
1998 till present - 3rd portrait (These have the IRB initials under the bust)
Although I currently do not have any in my collection, I'm sure there will be wrong portrait/design fakes out there, becoming what are known as 'mules' if it was a real coin, ie it has the wrong combination of design v bust portrait.
1983 & 1984 - 1st portrait
1985 until 1997 - 2nd portrait
1998 till present - 3rd portrait (These have the IRB initials under the bust)
Although I currently do not have any in my collection, I'm sure there will be wrong portrait/design fakes out there, becoming what are known as 'mules' if it was a real coin, ie it has the wrong combination of design v bust portrait.
Know Your Sequences
The Mint Office have kindly kept the rotation policy of the individual nationalistic designs easy for anyone to follow once you know the sequence.
First 'Rotation'
1983 - UK Design
1984 - Scottish emblem
1985 - Welsh emblem
1986 - Irish emblem
1987 - English emblem
Once this rotation was completed, the 5 year sequence started again and has been maintained thus;
UK Insignia - 1988 - 1993 - 1998 - 2003
Scottish - 1989 - 1994 - 1999 - 2004
Welsh - 1990 - 1995 - 2000 - 2005
Irish - 1991 - 1996 - 2001 - 2006
English - 1992 - 1997 - 2002 - 2007
In 2008 the sequence started again with the Coat of Arms design, but also produced is a 2008 'New' UK Shield design and this will be minted again with the year date of 2009 as well.
First 'Rotation'
1983 - UK Design
1984 - Scottish emblem
1985 - Welsh emblem
1986 - Irish emblem
1987 - English emblem
Once this rotation was completed, the 5 year sequence started again and has been maintained thus;
UK Insignia - 1988 - 1993 - 1998 - 2003
Scottish - 1989 - 1994 - 1999 - 2004
Welsh - 1990 - 1995 - 2000 - 2005
Irish - 1991 - 1996 - 2001 - 2006
English - 1992 - 1997 - 2002 - 2007
In 2008 the sequence started again with the Coat of Arms design, but also produced is a 2008 'New' UK Shield design and this will be minted again with the year date of 2009 as well.
Defects that mark a £1 coin out as a fake
On this site, I am going to classify all of my fake coins by means of comparing them against a list of 'giveaways' that help identify a £1 coin as a fake.
Main Defects
1. Wrong year date versus design (or vice versa ie wrong design for stated year date)
2. Misalignment of Queens head when held upright between thumb and index finger and then spun to see other side
3. Poor of lack of lettering around edge of coin (including poor 'reeding', the vertical bars around the entire edge of the coin, and also the wrong latin inscription for the year of the coin).
3a. In the 'Bridges Series' this insciption is a wavy line, that would be poorly inscribed and mis-matching
4. General colour and weight of coin
5. Fake coins that are cast will have a more rounded, less defined detail about them and the Queen will look slightly chubbier (apologies Your Majesty)
6. Under the third portrait of the Queen, the letters IRB that appear under the bust, will either be illegible blobs or missing
7. Wrong Queens portrait for year date
Secondary Defects
7. Cast coins may also have crack marks on the coin where the mould is breaking up and shows up on the moulded coin copy
8. On the design side of the coin, there are meant to be 100 dots or beads around the border. If these merge or generally disappear from the coin, then its fake
9. Specifically on the Scottish design, the latin inscription that begins 'Nemo' is very often 'Decus Et Tutamen' which is the wrong insciption
10. The Welsh coins do not have the 'Decus' inscription but a seperate Welsh inscription.
11. Cast coins, under a magnifying glass, have a slightly raised edge just in from the main edge of the coin, which helps show it was cast in a mould.
This list is not meant to be complete and I welcome anyone to add to it accordingly.
Main Defects
1. Wrong year date versus design (or vice versa ie wrong design for stated year date)
2. Misalignment of Queens head when held upright between thumb and index finger and then spun to see other side
3. Poor of lack of lettering around edge of coin (including poor 'reeding', the vertical bars around the entire edge of the coin, and also the wrong latin inscription for the year of the coin).
3a. In the 'Bridges Series' this insciption is a wavy line, that would be poorly inscribed and mis-matching
4. General colour and weight of coin
5. Fake coins that are cast will have a more rounded, less defined detail about them and the Queen will look slightly chubbier (apologies Your Majesty)
6. Under the third portrait of the Queen, the letters IRB that appear under the bust, will either be illegible blobs or missing
7. Wrong Queens portrait for year date
Secondary Defects
7. Cast coins may also have crack marks on the coin where the mould is breaking up and shows up on the moulded coin copy
8. On the design side of the coin, there are meant to be 100 dots or beads around the border. If these merge or generally disappear from the coin, then its fake
9. Specifically on the Scottish design, the latin inscription that begins 'Nemo' is very often 'Decus Et Tutamen' which is the wrong insciption
10. The Welsh coins do not have the 'Decus' inscription but a seperate Welsh inscription.
11. Cast coins, under a magnifying glass, have a slightly raised edge just in from the main edge of the coin, which helps show it was cast in a mould.
This list is not meant to be complete and I welcome anyone to add to it accordingly.
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